A short guide to military equipment priceing

[Pantycellen]

As we are not in the main experts of military hardware it is all to easy to offer military equipment for unrealistic prices.  To try and prevent this I will now provide lists of real world military equipment and their unit cost I will also provide a link to where I got it from.

Helicopters:

-Mil Mi-8 = 5-8 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-8  (price as of 2006)

-Aérospatiale Puma = 15.5 million US Dollars, http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/483802 (price as of 2006)

-UH-60 Black Hawk = 5.9 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UH-60_Black_Hawk (I think this may be a really old figure like from towards the original production runs in the 70's though just through comparison with other helicopters)

-UH-1 Iroquois = 4.7 million US Dollars, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/uh-1-specs.htm (again no indication as to when the price is from)

-EH-101/AW101 Merlin Mk 3 = 27 million US Dollars, http://www.deagel.com/Tactical-Support-Helicopters/EH101_a000461003.aspx

-AH-64 Apache = 18 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AH-64_Apache (1996)

-Agusta A129 Mangusta = 43 or 63 million US Dollars depending on type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agusta_A129_Mangusta (no date on prices but I presume they are from 2007 as that is where the improved 63 million version was bought)

-Denal AH-2 Rooivalk = ~40 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denel_AH-2_Rooivalk (no date)

-Mil Mi-28 = 12 million Euros, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28#cite_note-0 (no date)

-EC-635 = 2.95 million US Dollars, http://www.airforcebg.com/aircrafts.php?category=3&country=1&id=ec635 (no date)

-Ka-52 = 13 million US Dollars, http://www.airforcebg.com/aircrafts.php?category=3&country=2&id=ka52 (no date)

-CH-46 Sea king = 6.4 million US Dollars, http://www.airforcebg.com/aircrafts.php?category=3&country=3&id=ch46 (no date)

-CH-53 Sea Stalion = 25 million US Dollars, http://www.airforcebg.com/aircrafts.php?category=3&country=3&id=ch53 (no date)

-OH-58 Kiowa = 8.1 million US Dollars, http://www.airforcebg.com/aircrafts.php?category=3&country=3&id=oh58 (no date)

-RAH-66 Comanche = 7.5 million US Dollars, http://www.airforcebg.com/aircrafts.php?category=3&country=3&id=rah66 (no date)

-CH-47 Chinook = 10.3 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH-47_Chinook (1996)

[Warlordia]

Excellent initiative.

[The Commonwealth of Rhodesia]

Thanks! Prices jacked up accordingly. 

[Pantycellen]

Glad you like it

Tanks

FV4034 Challenger 2 = 4.2 million pounds sterling, 7.9 million US dollars, 5.6 million Euros, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2 (no date)

Leclerc = 29 million French francs, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leclerc (1993)

Leopard 2 = 76,305 US Dollars (Spain 2006), 11 million US Dollars (Greece 2003), Composite cost 4.5 million US Dollars, http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1461.html, (I would be inclined to ignore the price for spain and use the composite price but tack on a bit more (say up to about 5 million US dollars))

Merkava = 4.5-5 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava, (prices for 2006)

T-72 = 310,000 US Dollars, http://www.fourfold.org/billm/Aviation/AberdeenUSArmyOrdinanceMuseum/IraqiTanks/T72/index.htm, (no date but seems to be 1970's)


T-80 = 5 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80, (no date)

T-90 = 2.23 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90 (2007, also seems a bit low)

EE-T1 Osorio = 6.85 million Brazilian Dollars, 3.84 million US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE-T1_Os%C3%B3rio, (no date)

Arjun = 3.4 million US Dollars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_MBT (no date)

M-84 = 700,000 US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-84, (late 1980's)

M1 Abrams = 4.35 million US Dollars, 10 million Australian Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams, (no date)

[Pantycellen]

Man portable anti-air missiles

FIM-92 Stinger = 38,000 US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger, (no date but I think pretty early on in production (it has been in production since the 60's!))

9K38 Igla = 60,000-80,000 US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-16_Gimlet (2003)

Type 91 Surface-to-air missile = 145,000 US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_91_Surface-to-air_missile, (2006)

[Pantycellen]

Anti-tank missiles

FGM-148 Javelin = 80,000 US Dollars (missile), 125,000 US Dollars (reuseable command and launch unit), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin, (no date)

AT4 = 1,480 US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT4, (no date)

M-220 TOW = 180,000 US Dollars, http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/tow.htm (no date)

[Warlordia]

Presumably the price of T-72 have dropped in later years, given that the price tag is over three decades old.

I assume this is not the inferior export version that USSR sold but the version they used themselves?

[Pantycellen]

The price for the T-72 is for the one they sold to the Iraqi's and I think it is for early on during the the production rather then for now.

I would think that for a functional T-72 (russian standard rather then export) I'd think a 1 million US Dollar price tag would be about right maybe 1.5 if it's been re-engined and given explosive reactive armour and the sights and so on have been re-done (as the T-72 was an okay design let down by mechanical reliability and poor electronics specifically the optics and so on)

I'd put the M-84 at this kinda level as well (if given explosive reactive armour and maybe better targeting gear) seeing as its about the same.

[The Commonwealth of Rhodesia]

The price for the T-72 is for the one they sold to the Iraqi's and I think it is for early on during the the production rather then for now.

I would think that for a functional T-72 (russian standard rather then export) I'd think a 1 million US Dollar price tag would be about right maybe 1.5 if it's been re-engined and given explosive reactive armour and the sights and so on have been re-done (as the T-72 was an okay design let down by mechanical reliability and poor electronics specifically the optics and so on)

I'd put the M-84 at this kinda level as well (if given explosive reactive armour and maybe better targeting gear) seeing as its about the same.

Definitely. The Iraqi tanks were monkey-models that American Abrams crews nicknamed "Jack in the Box."

A T-72 upgrade with ERA, protected ammo storage, modernized fire control, 120mm smoothbore gun and other improvements would be pushing two million if not more.

[The Commonwealth of Rhodesia]

Anti-tank missiles

FGM-148 Javelin = 80,000 US Dollars (missile), 125,000 US Dollars (reuseable command and launch unit), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin, (no date)

AT4 = 1,480 US Dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT4, (no date)

M-220 TOW = 180,000 US Dollars, http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/tow.htm (no date)

The gun-launched laser-guided LAHAT ATGM costs $20,000 in 1999 dollars, or slightly more than $25,000 in 2008 dollars. I'd assume that the AT-11 Sniper and other similar missiles would cost roughly the same.

Here's some more missile cost info:

AGM-65 Maverick - up to $160,000, though I'd assume that's for the IR electro-optical version.
AIM-9 Sidewinder - $85,000
AIM-7 Sparrow - $125,000
AGM-88 HARM - $284,000
AGM-45 Shrike - $32,000
AIM-120 AMRAAM - $340,000

PS, you can calculate inflation in US Dollars here: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

JDAM kits cost between $35,000 and $70,000, though these require a GPS network which no nation in NS Africa has deployed yet. I would assume that a Paveway-type laser guidance kit would carry a similar cost.

[Pantycellen]

Yes however the additional 500,000 US Dollars in your price would probably come from the new gun which was not included in my estimate. (my view being that the 125mm isn't a bad gun but the autoloaders they came with were often terrible, change the autoloader and you get a reasonable gun (plus the 120mm smooth bore isn't the best 120mm gun out there....))

Basically if we assume a modernised/improved T-72 and similar (M-84 earlier models) if you are asking for a resale price then I doubt you would get more then 1.5 million as there are better tanks out there for about the same price (especially in terms of survivability).  However if you have T-72's/M-84's then you can upgrade them to be good modern tanks far cheaper then buying a new one (such as what kuwait is doing with its M-84s) so offering an upgrade package would be worthwhile as a financial proposition.

The Iraqi armed forces operated the terrible russian export model and also the even worse polish and chech export models (who's own version was inferior to the russian model so their export versions were terrible).

[The Commonwealth of Rhodesia]

Replacing the autoloader is probably the one thing you need to do on the T-72 if you want your crew to keep their arms. 

I'm interested to hear what you think about the 120mm gun - do you think that a rifled one as on the Chieftan and Challenger series is better?

[Pantycellen]

The British gun is superior in range, accuracy and at least originally in the choices of ammunition, it does however have a somewhat slower rate of fire but the lethality per min of fireing is about the same at medium range.  Because the German smoothbore has a higher rate of fire it is better at short range while the better accuracy means the British rifled gun is better at range.  I know that barrel launched missile systems mean that long range in guns is becoming less important but then you get improvements in missile jamming which can't affect a "dumb" shell. 

An interesting thing to note is that when the the US military was looking for a gun for the M1 Abrams, the initial trials recomended adopting the rifled British gun or retaining the 105mm with improved ammunition.  Then the Germans said that they would adopt the M1's turbine powerplant (the Leopard 2 origionally had a very very good diesel powerplant) and some american electronic and optical equipment if the US accepted their smoothbore gun and the US suddenly chose the German gun......

I don't know enough about the Oto Melara or Giat guns to talk about and the IMI gun just seems to be a clone of the German gun. (though saying that the Giat auto-loader looks quite fun (their guns are generally quite good though they sometimes go a bit mad but in a good way))

Yes having arms generally improves the efficiency of an armoured crew........

[The Commonwealth of Rhodesia]

I can't disagree with what you've said about the British gun, especially as there are HEAT rounds that can be used in rifled guns, as can missiles such as the LAHAT.

While the IMI gun is similar to the German one its overall dimensions are smaller due to a more compact recoil system and is actually similar in size to the 105mm L7 gun.

[Pantycellen]

oooh so its not going to be that powerful then I take it

Longer barrel=greater velocity of shot

I was under the impression that barrel launched missiles were only available for smoothbore weapons.....

Well there goes one of their redeming features.